SVO Fuel Mixes on Diesel Engines

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Dialogs on SVO Fuel Mixes on Diesel Engines

Extracted Dialog from vegoil-diesel

Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 09:24:25 -0000

From: "erichalltoo" <Erichall@y...>

Subject: Re: frantz oil filters

--- In vegoil-diesel@yahoogroups.com, burt delano <porkbrick@y...> wrote:

>any thoughts on the use of kerosene to prevent veg-oil gelling and improve viscosity?

Don't know about kerosene (that's paraffin to those of us living over here) but I've run a selection of trucks on a mix of new cooking oil and fossil diesel over various periods.

If it's well mixed, you can use as much as 75% new oil with 25% diesel without any problems in the summer. There is (in my opinion) a noticeable increase in power and speed with a mixture such as that.

When the weather gets colder, you need to dilute the mixture considerably and once freezing weather arives, I doubt you could get away with anything higher than a 5%/95% mix.

The above is just my experience based on empirical studies, and it was realising that I'd arrived at the limit of my technical possibilities that made me go to learn about refining waste oil.

http://www.lesguis.com

Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2005 10:15:29 -0000

From: "Chug" <balehead@n...>

Subject: Re: frantz oil filters

--- In vegoil-diesel@yahoogroups.com, burt delano <porkbrick@y...>

wrote:

>>>>>SNIPPED>>>>>

any thoughts on the

> use of kerosene to prevent veg-oil gelling and improve viscosity?

I have used veg oil thinned with approx 20 - 25% kerosene(paraffin inthe UK) in a generator, as I heard that it was the best for thinningwvo/svo with and that 10% paraffin reduces gelling by approx 3 deg C,I tried mixing some in a bottle first and left it outside in thefrost and cold for a week or so and it remained mixed and did notseperate or gel so I threw some in the genny and it ran fine, I havealso used paraffin mixed 50/50 with dinodiesel so I would havethought that up to 50% paraffin in veg oil would also be ok.

Chug

Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 13:05:25 -0000

From: "panayis.zambellis" <panayisz@y...>

Subject: paraffin

there have been other posts in the past about mixing svo wvo with less viscous liquids to aid fluidity and unleaded petrol is also a good agent. Up to 20% of unleaded petrol mixed in the wvo or svo noticeably improves its flow properties.

panayis zambellis luton uk

Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 07:54:19 -0700

From: "Adam Gagnon" <atchbo@w...>

Subject: Re: Re: Filter before the injector pump

...Or you may have hydrogenated oil.Take a look in your tank andsee if it is liquid or solid.In my area (Calgary, AB, Canada), ittook some time to find good oil, and the 'bad' stuff (hydrogenatedoil or shortening) looks fine when it is warm, only to formmargarine in your tank and filters, and can be quite annoying.

The symptoms of solid fuel are what you'd expect-- starvation, airbubbles, sputtering, stalling.A vacuum gauge (installed with a Tfitting) on the fuel line (between your fuel selector valve and theIP) will show you if this is the case (you'll see the vacuum risesharply a little while after you've switched over to veg).

If this is the case, try to get your car indoors and either take thetank out and empty it, or dilute the vegoil with diesel etc.Makesure your next batch of oil doesn't gel at ambient temps (put acubee outside overnight and look it over in the am).Your filterwill be full of this hydrogenated oil even after hours of driving onbetter oil or mixed fuel, so keep an eye on this for the rest of thecold season, and don't take that oil anymore.

One other thing is possible as well.Air bubbles in the vegoillines can cause air locks in the return loop or by accumulating inyour filter.If you suspect this is the case, pump oil through thesystem from the veg tank toward the engine (catching the excess oilin a bucket or cup under the hood).This is a possibility if hoseshave been removed/changed recently.To pump the fuel, use a squeezebomb type pump or hand pump or spare lift pump and rig up atemporary connection.

By all means, check the mechanic's installation.

Cheers,

Adam

Care2 make the world greener!

http://www.Care2.comFree e-mail. 100MB storage.Helps charities.

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Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 09:58:01 -0500

From: Steve Spence <sspence@g...>

Subject: Re: Filter before the injector pump

The filter is heated, the tank is heated, and there is a circulating 110vac 1000watt coolant heater. Oil can't be solidified in the tank, lines, or filter. Hydrogenated oil is not an issue.

Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 19:50:55 -0500

From: Roger <rdp246@...t>

Subject: Re: Anyone using Vegetable oil in a 7.3 liter International used for hauling

Jason,

I'm currently running a 50/50 (approximately) mix in a 6.2 GMC.If Idon't use the block heater it is almost impossible to start when temps get below 35F. With the block heater it starts reasonable well even down to 26F.If your 7.3 isa power stroke it will have a lot higher injection pressure than my Gimmy and willatomize the heavier (colder) fuel better. I'm not sure 80/20 will work well except in summer...

roger

Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 19:50:55 -0500

From: Roger <rdp246@e...>

Subject: Re: Anyone using Vegetable oil in a 7.3 liter International used for hauling

Jason,

roger

Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 09:58:01 -0500

From: Steve Spence <sspence@g...>

Subject: Re: Filter before the injector pump

The filter is heated, the tank is heated, and there is a circulating 110vac 1000watt coolant heater. Oil can't be solidified in the tank, lines, or filter. Hydrogenated oil is not an issue.

Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 21:52:44 -0400

From: Eric Olsen <eric128@o...>

Subject: RE: petrol plus veggie

A 10% mixture works fine in my lawnmover, but I would not put it in a car with a working catalyst.

Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 12:01:48 -0700 (PDT)

From: Ben Hazel <ben91932@y...>

Subject: Re: Understanding and Science Fair results!

--- Andrew Cunningham <liamfoxtrot@g...> wrote:

> My firend has a jetta diesel and it suggests mixing up to 30% gas to the diesel to help with cold weather driving. What additives do you use?

> Andy

CRC from NAPA IIRC.

If I'm not mistaken, V W recommends no more than 25% gas mixed with the diesel. Does anyone have a factory manual for one of these?

Thanks,

ben

I tied KFC grease mixed with gas, and I couldnt seem to keep it from hardening. I'd be anxious to hear how it is done.

Ben

A friend of mine has had pretty good luck using 20% gas and 80%oil. No preheat, no switches, just filtered, mixed and thrown in the tank. Quite a few miles now with no problems.

Ben

Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 10:42:17 -0400

From: Steve Spence <sspence@g...>

Subject: Re: Understanding and Science Fair results!

Kerosene, up to 50% in really cold weather (-40)

Steve Spence

Dir., Green Trust

http://www.green-trust.org

Contributing Editor

http://www.off-grid.net

http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html

Date: Sun, 01 May 2005 23:37:01 -0700

From: "omar white" <mediaomar@h...>

Subject: Re: Blended Performance

check your filter (both of them pre filter and main filter)... make sure itis not clogged ... try adding 10 to 15% of unleaded to your wvo ... how coldis it where your are??? sometimes you can clean your clogged filter out withunleaded regular gas ...my guess is all the old dirt and junk in your tankis in your filter now ... so if you run a blend carry and extra filter withyou ... O

Date: Sun, 01 May 2005 15:41:18 -0700

From: "omar white" <mediaomar@h...>

Subject: regular unleaded gas and WVO?

I have a question or two about regular unleaded gas and WVO. A few guys arerunning 10 to 15% unleaded regular gas in their WVO without doing a two-tankconversion. Some are filtering WVO by adding unleaded regular gas (unleadedregular gas makes the junk fall to the bottom).

Question is: What happens to the WVO when you add regular unleaded gas ∑

what is the chemical reaction? What changes in the WVO?

And while we‚re at it, what about adding 1% to 2% acetone to WVO? Will the acetone make the WVO burn more effectively?

Thanks Omar

Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 18:07:38 -0700 (PDT)

From: jim jim <jim6669jim@y...>

Subject: Re: Re: Svo + Diesel mix

Hi,

I've experimented with wvo+diesel blends. In my experience, they stayed mixed right up to the gell point. I did some test on diffrent levels of filtering with 100 microm filt. wvo and 1 micron filt. wvo. The 100 micron did not splash blend, yet the 1 micron would. So it seems the fine particles interfere with mixing. Perhaps a finer filter would improve your mix at low temperatures.

I add 15% unleaded to my UCO (single tank). It's just a mix, there is no chemical reaction. The main thing it does, is toreduce the viscosity. With a heated fuel filter, I recon it's near enough the same viscosity as diesel.

I haven't tried adding the petrol(gas) before I filter the UCO. I would have problems with vapour, storage, etc. It's easier to add the petrol just before it goes into the tank.

Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 11:43:08 +0100 (BST)

From: Peter Adams <petermassure@y...>

Subject: My experiences

I have been working on running my cars/van on Veg Oil since I first heard it could be done back in 2001. I did some research and I bought The "From the Fryer to the Fuel Tank" Bokk which I do recommend. Due to work commitments and having been a Transport Manager for a company for some time I have not had chance to do much with regard to my "hobby" of using Veg Oil. Except

My 1987 2.5 Non turbo Ford Granada Runs fine on a mixture of %/7 Litres of Fresh clean Veg OIl per Tank with no problems (except in winter I add a gallon of petrol as it gets hard to start) Sadly the old bus is getting past it's best so she maybe retiring soon . My "new" car is a 1900cc non turbo Peugeot 405, this I am running on 20% Veg Oil with no problems so far. I am in the process of building a Veg Oil Tank to fit under the bonnet and I am planning to change the Ail filter for a small K&N one which will give me space where the old air filter box sat to fit my Heat exchanger (Photo attached) As most of you are aware Veg oil is about 46p /lt ,Cheapest round here seems to be Lidl or Aldi if anyone knows a lower price I would be interested. I dont really want to use old Oil. Problem with old oil , Cleaning it, acidity, storing it, collecting it, disposing of byproducts etc. Thought about using a heter plug (glow plug) in the bottom of my veg oil tank, does anyone know how long they last used this way (bear in mind in normal life they only run for a few seconds and their current drain is high.

Anyway that my contribution so far I would like some feedback. Lets keep up the good work, by the way do any of you get john nicolsons newsletters from his bio-diesl site ?

Pete Adams Derby.

Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 10:47:09 EDT

From: bornjoyful@a...

Subject: Re: Re: heated fuel injection pump

first of all...that wastypo in my mail...i meant to say that my car was unhappy on 100% cleaned veg oil with 5% white spirit added.

I did not make this I bought it tax paid. i have now ben told by customs that white spirit does not qualify for the taxreduction...so although i am not tax evading here..the person that sold it tome could get done for this and I am not happy about not being told thisinformation...i am pretty sure my liability is nil here...but as i said..carunhappy anyway with a lot of juddering, stop soleniods not working that was funnytaking out key and car still running for ten minutes!!). My car runs brill on 50% oil 50% diesel...so i do not see need for whitespirit anyway .

I do not understand much about all of this yet which is why I joined thisgroup. i have a bosch pump and a citroen xantia 1996 and would love to run on100% oil even if this means adding a heater .

i am still very foggy as to why regular diesel cannot be added to 5% ..i meanwhy white spirit...infact white spirit at 99p a litre is more expensive thandiesel at 90p litre..does it have better properties for reducing viscocity?

I am also unsure as to whther white spirit may dissolve rubber or damage inside mechanisms?

Tania

Date: Sun, 29 May 2005 09:06:40 -0500

From: Joe <joegreene@u...>

Subject: SVO - Ethanol Blend (Not Biodiesel)

The North Dakota farmer Arlis Hanson, discussed below, has been blending Soy 'SVO' with his own locally produced bio-ethanol made from corn.

As veg-oil members understand, this farmer is not making classicbiodiesel - but rather an enhanced version of SVO.The added ethanol isa new twist (at least to me). To the best of my knowledge, SVO is notrecognized as a 'legal' fuel by any bureau of the U.S. Federal Government.

Farmer Hanson has been producing and selling his Soy 'SVO' - Ethanol -D2 blend under biodiesel regulations and the situation is about tochange - unfortunately. It seems he has been stretching bio-ethanolregulations too.

************************

Posted on Fri, May. 13, 2005

Biofuel plan worries farmer - Idea threatens incentives, limits market to few producers

By Bill E. Wambeke,American News Writer

Columbia farmer Arlis Hanson wants to continue to have an equal playing field when it comes to producing his own soy-ethanol fuel additive.

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency feels differently, and couldchange its definition of such biodiesel fuels. The EPA says the move isto ensure a quality product. Hanson says it's about eliminating thefederal tax incentives biodiesel producers like him currently enjoy, andnarrowing the biodiesel business to a select few.

"If it passes all the specifications of the EPA, why not make itentitled to tax incentives like others," Hanson said about his fuelblend.Hanson said the redefinition would not put him out ofbusiness, but it would definitely take a bite out of his bottom line.And he said there's no good reason to make the change.

"It's almost like some folks want a monopoly," Hanson said.

Hanson is the owner of Ag Services Inc., a soy-ethanol business nearHuffton that makes Dakota Ag Additive. His one-of-a-kind blend of soyoil with ethanol is meant to be added to diesel fuel to provide engineswith added lubricity, improved mileage, more horsepower and better coldweather performance. It also reduces harmful emissions.

Over the last couple of years he has sold several thousand gallons of the additive to local farmers.

To make the additive, Hanson goes to elevators to buy soybeans or hasproducers bring in their crops, which he then heats and sends though avice to squeeze out the oils. He gets his ethanol from the HeartlandGrains ethanol plant in Aberdeen.

He then blends the soy oil and ethanol to make Dakota Ag Additive. Hanson uses the additive in his son's tractors at a rate of 20 percentsoy-ethanol to 80 percent D2 petroleum diesel - the highest recommended mix.

"Ethanol burns cleaner. When the tractor is running you'll notice that no black smoke is coming out of the smokestack because of the way it burns," Hanson said.

Hanson, like other ethanol producers, feels that if production of ethanol fuels is further increased, the environment as well as farmers will reap the rewards.

Hanson's son Todd has been using the blended fuel for the last three years. He has noticed he gets better mileage out of the semi (lorry) that he uses as well as better production out of his farm tractors.

"Farmers should really look into using biofuels. It makes economic sense," Todd said.

Fighting the good fight: Two years ago Arlis Hanson acquired a ethanolproduction license from the EPA and has been working with Illinois-basedLee Technologies to develop and promote his product. A possibleredefinition would limit 'biodiesel' to oil converted to methyl esters.

Hanson uses pure ethanol mixed with soy oil, which would not fit the new EPA definition.

Arlis has been in contact with Jim Lohmeyer, vice president of AmericanBiorefining Inc. in Bloomington, Ill., to help his fight against the newdefinition. "We need to stop them from redefining what biodiesel is,"Lohmeyer said.

The change would limit the market to only a few ethanol producers, andHanson feels that goes against what the country is trying to accomplishwith lessening its dependence on foreign oil. Lohmeyer has been incontact with members of Congress to stop the redefinition.

"If the goal is to reduce dependence, why shouldn't any fuel additive be able to participate in tax incentives?" Lohmeyer said.

While those for having a narrow definition say that it ensures a quality product, both Hanson and Lohmeyer feel the opposite.

"It's a endeavor to hog the market," Lohmeyer said.

end of article **************************

//////////////////////////////////////////////

Aside from it being a bit confusing, my take on the situation is thatthe U.S. EPA regulations have 'always' defined biodiesel as methylesters - not anything similar to SVO. Perhaps the proposed EPAregulation change that is spoken about is a clarification - specificallyruling out blends such as Farmer Hanson's.

Bio-Ethanol is allowed under other EPA regulations.Farmer Hanson, it seems, has been 'mixing and matching' government fuel regulations with a Soy oil (SVO) Ethanol D2 blend.

Leave it to the good old U.S. Government to find a way to stifle a good idea.SVO + Bio-Ethanol -- WHY NOT?

Cordially - Joe Greene

P.S. The article above was edited slightly as the reporter had made obvious conceptual errors and even spelling errors.

Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 12:26:49 +0100 (BST)

From: Peter Adams <petermassure@y...>

Subject: Re: LDV convoy suitability

I have sucessfully run a Ford Granada 2.5 which also used the Peugeot built engine using svo I have used a variety of mixes of svo to diesel and it has run okay up to 50% of svo to Derv I have only been using white spirit in the last 3 months I always use 5% and leave it for at least a week before using it and I have had no problems a sepate heater either electric or coolant based has not been used yet in this project, however it is planned. I did find on really cold days in winter with no aditional heating the 50/50 mix took a bit of starting and the engine ran a little lumpy for the first 5 miles or so.

Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2005 11:21:51 -0000

From: "Chug" <balehead@n...>

Subject: Re: LDV convoy suitability

Hi Leo

do you know what Injection pump(IP) is fitted to your engine? if it is a Lucas CAV IP you will need to fit a conversion kit for two tank operation as previously mentioned...smartveg etc.

However if it has the more robust Bosch IP you can run it onvegetable oil with a suitable thinning agent, if you use white spiritit will fall into fuel substitutes spec and command the higher rateof fuel duty 47.1p per litre, as will using paraffin.If you use diesel or petrol then these are already duty paid and youcan go on the lower rate 27.1p per litre BUT you must mix/blend inthe vehicles tank as mixing/blending outside the tank creates a fuelsubstitute and again higher fuel duty. The percentage of veg oil/thinning agent will depend on the conditionof your engine and the climate it operates in, but can be as low as50/50 for winter use and up to 100% veg oil for summer use.

HTH

regards

Chug

Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2005 20:44:07 +0100

From: "David Callow" <dave@y..>

Subject: RE: Problems getting petrol

Hi JK,

I think it depends on the filling station. I have no trouble at Tesco.Have the diesels been modified (fuel line heaters) and how many miles haveyou done in the last year? What diesel vehicles are they?I've been using diesel/SVO 50/50 on an unmodified Golf without a problem.

Dave.

Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2005 14:14:57 -0000

From: "John" <john@kemp77.freeserve.co.uk>

Subject: Problems getting petrol

I'm running two diesels on a blend of 85% used cooking oil and 15% petrol, and have been doing this for over a year now.Everything is fine, except that picking up the petrol from filling stations is causing a problem. The was a time that you could fill up a number of cans at a time, and no questions were asked. Now, it seems, they only want you to fill one can per visit. Has there been a change in the law? And what does it say?

Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 09:41:14 +0100

From: Lez <lez.briddon@n...>

Subject: Re: petrol plus veggie

David Callow wrote:

> I'd guess you'd oil up the spark plugs and have a smoky exhaust! I wouldn't even try it! Get a cheap diesel - one with a Bosch injection pump. I run 50/50 unmodified.

Old renault engine, old bosch pump, 98%SVO starts first turn of key used for short 2 mile trips about 2 times a day, then on 3 days it does 50 mile trips, and 2 trips in the year of 500 mile.No modification except changed tank to pump fuel line for 10mm copper. (old fuel line got a kink, restricted flow, cut top speed to 40mph so it had to go!)Filter is heated (standard fitment, not that much heat, should really upgrade)

vehicle worth about 50ukp so no worries.

Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 11:16:51 +0200

From: Niels Ansø <anso.ppot@m...>

Subject: RE: petrol plus veggie

I know some people in Germany who tested VO as 2-stroke oil in gasoline forchain saws. They concluded that it works fine, and the results indicatedthat they could reduce the oil concentration to 1% instead of 2%.Nevertheless, they would not say that the tests were completed, and wouldthereby only recommend people to try it as an experiment (no guaranty).

I don't know how >2% oil the gasoline will work in a 4-stroke gasolineengine, but with a 2-strokes it gives a terrible smoke which, hardly is goodfor the engine - and definitely bad for the environment.I'm running my 50 years old Massey Ferguson 31 tractor with some % VO in thegasoline, to lubricate the valves because I use un-lead gasoline.

Niels Ansø

Denmark

Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 06:30:22 +0100

From: "David Callow" <dave@w...>

Subject: RE: cooking oil in vw's

Hi,

I've got basically the same engine (Mk III Golf). It runs fine on 70/30veg/dino summer and 50/50 winter. Tesco's, Sainsbury's, Asda's rapeseed.Unmodfied vehicle. Would fit an Elsbett system if running 100% veg.

Dave.

Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 06:51:55 +0100

From: "David Callow" <dave@w...>

Subject: RE: WVO engine failures

I used vegoil in a Mercedes 190D 2.5 (the five cylinder version of your 6cylinder engine). It was on a 50/50 mix of SVO winter 70/30 summer on anunconverted engine. No problems. There can be no guarantees with WVO.Elsbettt don't warranty engines on WVO (but do on SVO).

Dave.